Adaptable

Struggle!

the friend zone doesnt exist!!!

higu:

adaptable:

So to clarify: we agree that there is a social imbalance between men and women that it is easier for men to reject women than for women to reject men.  I completely agree with you.  And I completely agree with you that it sucks that men get so upset about being put in the friend zone, and that the women who do the putting can be looked down upon.

The friend zone is something that everyone in the world who has romantic feelings for other people is entitled to.  Women are absolutely entitled to it, whether they like it or not.  If a woman said, “That guy just put me in the friend zone,” even die-hard misogynists would not think that was weird to say, or somehow above her station.  It just means the guy isn’t that into her.

If a girl complained to you, “I tried to get XXXXX to ask me out on a date, but we’re just going to watch Star Wars—I think he’s put me in the friend zone, this sucks” it doesn’t make sense to accuse her of misogyny.

If you are not taking the tack of, “the friend zone is misogynist” anymore, but instead, “the friend zone is problematic because it puts one person in the position of doing something wrong by not reciprocating feelings,” that is a different kettle of fish, but I would still disagree with you.  Friend zoning is not a bullshit term because ultimately, if there are two people, and one person likes the the person, and the other person doesn’t like them back except as a friend, it just happens.  Friend zoning describes a phenomenon, it isn’t an action by itself.  I don’t think that you are saying that the phenomenon that friend zoning describes is inherently bad.  By taking away the option to friend zone someone, it would mean that whenever someone expressed interest in you, you would either need to get with them or stop being friends with them.

okay, so i think where we are having trouble with is concept versus application.  it seems like you’re stuck on the meaning of the concept itself - and in that regard i can agree that the concept itself is not misogynist -  rather than how it’s actually applied.  yes, the concept of friend zoning could theoretically go either way.  so could sexism.  so could racism.  but when you actually APPLY it, it’s a totally different situation.

if a woman said “i was friend zoned” a die hard misogynist would probably tell her “it’s your fault.”  even the “average” person might say “it’s your fault.”  or the girl will say “it’s my fault.”  THAT is where the misogyny of the situation comes in.  applied misogyny is a lot like racism in that it’s not so much JUST hating on women as much as it’s also maintaining control over them— which is what applied friend zoning risks doing.

if a girl told me, “aw man i got friend zoned,” i would say, “well that sucks.”  if a girl told me ,”i got friend zoned, it’s my fault,” i would say, “uh hey wait, what.”  internalized misogyny is still misogyny.  the point is that women are made to feel blame for it, thus taking away whatever amount of control they had in the situation and putting it completely in the hands of men.

when you consider it in the context of actually applying it, yes, i still think friend zoning is bullshit, but that’s not a track i’m taking instead of misogyny, it’s just an afterthought.

addendum to your response to sarah:  you keep trying to isolate the “idea” of it without recognizing that things like the nice guy, etc come about BECAUSE of friend zoning.  i am sure that when the idea came out, it wasn’t nearly as problematic, but the meaning of it has changed with the results it creates.

I don’t think the concept of friend zoning is really equitable to racism or sexism—racism and sexism both rely on a power imbalance that friend zoning does not.  Friend zoning is, as you say in your later post, something that when outside of an imbalance of power would still stand.  Racism, or sexism, outside of a balance in power, would not still stand.

I currently occupy a small section of the world that is pretty progressive.  When one of my female friends gets put in the friend zone, we comfort her, and tell her that she’s awesome.  If one of my male friends gets put in the friend zone, we will also comfort him and tell him that he’s awesome.  It is not a different story when it is applied, I am not saying that friend zoning is fine in a world without friend zoning, I am saying that friend zoning is fine in a world without misogyny.  Even in the world we live now, friend zoning is something that must happen—it is only the way that people react to it that is problematic.

If you are saying, “The classification of friend zoning as something where a frigid girl is super mean to a nice guy unfairly” is misogynistic, then I agree with you.  But the act of putting someone in the friend zone is not dumb, because sometimes feelings are not reciprocated, and in the general context of, “this girl isn’t that into me, but likes me as a friend, I must have been put into the friend zone” is not problematic either, as long as it doesn’t suggest that there is something wrong about the person who is rejecting.

The nice guy idea isn’t the fault of friend zoning.  It is because our society sets up unhealthy expectations in guys, making them feel entitled to be with anyone they woo.  The idea that the nice guy idea is the fault of them being rejected, or the pure acknowledgment that they are considered a friend, not a possible romantic partner is false.

(Source: wat-fok)

  1. thinx-of-a-xicana reblogged this from higu
  2. higu reblogged this from adaptable and added:
    i don’t have a rebuttal but i like this response so i’m REBLOGGIN’ IT. i feel like OP’s statement was pretty much...
  3. adaptable reblogged this from higu and added:
    I don’t think the concept of friend zoning is really equitable to racism or sexism—racism and sexism both rely on a...
  4. wat-fok reblogged this from hylia
  5. hylia reblogged this from adaptable and added:
    alright i think the friend zone in question here is more than just “asking someone out on a date” honestly, i think the...
  6. wat-fok posted this